Experienced people, what would you guess?

[erich]

My grandfather, Ernest Hargraves was born in Lincoln about 1881, according to his death certificate, and emigrated to Australia about 1899. Although I have had some help, I haven't been able to locate him, in Lincoln or elsewhere in UK. So I have begun looking for his parents, which his death certificate states were "Francis Hargraves, weaver" and "Mary McQuillan". I have found a match for these names which is about the right age, but (1) located in Hebden, Yorkshire in the 1871, 1881 & 1891 censuses, (2) he is a "lead miner" and (3) no children are listed in the census, and certainly no Ernest.

But there are few Francis Hargraves-Mary McQuillan couples anywhere around this time so I am considering the possibilities:

(1) that perhaps Ernest moved to Lincoln prior to emigration, and so Lincoln rather than Hebden was put on his death certificate (after all, what would us colonials know about such distant places?);

(2) the identification of occupation may not be always very accurate or permanent, and

(3) one family tree I have found includes this couple and a child which the census has not included, so may not have included Ernest either.

So I need to ask some of you experienced people please, relating to these three points, whether your experience leads you to think I am grasping at straws and the exact names tare not a sufficiently strong identification, and therefore it very doubtful these are the people I am looking for? Or is the name identification a very strong evidence that should outweigh these negative thoughts?

And whether you have any suggestion on how to resolve this possible identification please?

I understand no-one can give me authoritative advice, but I am interested to hear if you have any gut feelings based on other research you have done. Thank you very much.

[Mary in Oz]

Hi Erich.. Nice to see you ...Will give it a shot and see what I come up with..will get back to you soon..

In the meantime pop in and have a chat on the Boomerang thread..nice people on there..

[JALimestone Plains]

Erich, do you have details of where Ernest came to in Australia - and what his occupation was listed as. Also is the death certificate Australian, I am assuming so, and did he have children.

[Mary in Oz]

Crikey Eric You have a doozy here..I have found the supposed parents and grandparents..on the census as you have..but cant find a Ernest born with those parents..
I have found a Ernest Hargreaves christened 15/8/1884 in Barrow Upton Humber Lincoln,, parents William and Asenath Hargreaves.

Ernest Hargraves born 11/11/1880. Christened 4/7/1883 Woodhouse Near huddersfiled Yorkshire Parents Tom and Annie..

Found a Ernest Philip Hargraves that went to Singapore in 1929 born c1879, with wife Eleanore and daughter Philippa,,found Philippas wedding in Singapore to a Mr. R.J.F Curtis..
Found these Hargraves in 2 passenger lists going to the UK and back to Penang... and from London to Melbourne in 1951.age 70.occ retired..

That is about it so far..

Can you give any more info about this man..

[Mary in Oz]

Eric I have found this..

John Clement HARGRAVE born 1851 Grimsby Lincolnshire occ gardener
Harriet wife born 1860 Haddlesey Yorkshire
John C Hargrave son born 1874 Leeds Yorkshire
Lily Hargrave Dughter born 1875 " "
Hetty Hargrave " " 1877 Batley Yorkshire
Lionel Hargrave son " 1880 " "
Ernest Hargrave born 1881 Harrogate Yorkshire...

Could this be him.......

[Mary in Oz]

another

Ernest E Hargrave born 1882 Moulton Linc.son of Samuel and Elizabeth Hargrave,,
Samuel B. Hargrave born 1856 Butterron Linc
Elizabrht A Hargrave born 1862 Surfleet Linc.''
Children
Ernest E 1882 Moulton Linc
Rose E 1884 Sutterton Linc
Samuel B 1885 Heckington Linc
William F 1887 Kerton Linc
George H 1889 Surfleet Linc
Charles A 1890 Pinchbeck Linc.

[Yvonne from Oz]

Eric,

glad you managed to find you way here. Hope we can help.

Put up any details of the Australian end as well.

[JALimestone Plains]

Erich, given Sir Tones is on the job I will bow out.

[Tony Oz]

Erich, given Sir Tones is on the job I will bow out.

JA. I was searching for Eric on another section of his family tree ( Australian relations ) that he was having trouble finding, so please continue by all means.

I knew Eric was also having trouble finding Ernest Hargraves/Hargreaves in the U.K.......but i have not done any research out of Australia at this time.

I will also try to see if i can find him in the U.K
Many hands make light work, and one of us might see something conclusive.



Tony

[erich]

Dear Mary, JALimestone Plains, Yvonne & Tony (hope I haven't missed anyone!)

Thank you so much for your enthusiastic response. I posted on Monday, didn't get back for a couple of days, and now I find so much interest, so much checking as already been done. This is a general reply, to let you know I am still here and keen, and then I will see if I can answer some specific questions.

As Tony said, he has already helped my out with some problems at the Australian end. (BTW Tony - one interesting thing was to checkout other Clarks in the cemetery, and who was buried together. I'll send you an email.) My short experience so far in family tree tracing as been immensely interesting and fascinating, but also somewhat frustrating. Both grandparents are proving very difficult to trace, and sometimes I wonder whether there were reasons why certain people left few documents behind them.

In the case of Ernest Hargraves, I just don't know. My mum told me she thought he came from Holborn in London (but she never really knew him, so had this "information" second hand), the Aust documentation says Lincoln, but the only likely parents seem to be in Yorkshire.

Anyway, here's a few answers to questions ....

Erich, do you have details of where Ernest came to in Australia - and what his occupation was listed as. Also is the death certificate Australian, I am assuming so, and did he have children.

His death certificate (Sydney 1939/002344) says 40 years in NSW (=1899, when he was about 17), and I assume he wasn't anywhere else in Australia before that (though I guess I should check). I haven't found any passenger list that verifies this. His occupation at his wedding in 1913 was chef, and he worked at the Jervis Bay naval base. My understanding is that he was a civilian chef, and the Navy hasn't found any record of him as a serviceman - and my mum said he had a little cottage there, which a mere serviceman wouldn't have had.

He had 3 children - one still alive (I think) so I won't mention her name & Jean (my mum) by his 1913 marriage to Olive Blanche Clark (the person Tony has been helping me with), plus Constance by his 1924 marriage to Gertrude Aldridge.

I have to go out now, but I will respond more soon. Thanks so much.