Eric, your Hargraves are all yours So far have found nare one in my tree, just enjoying the chase so to speak Apologies for the gratutitus advice about the marriage certificate .
JALimestone Plains wrote:Eric, your Hargraves are all yours So far have found nare one in my tree, just enjoying the chase so to speak Apologies for the gratutitus advice about the marriage certificate.
No apologies necessary - everyone has been very helpful, and good advice doesn't always lead to the result one wants, but that's life.
Can you confirm Ernest's birthdate as c 1880?
Marriage certificate (April 10, 1913) says 33 years old (= before April 10 1880, i.e. could easily be 1879). Death certificate (23 Feb 1939) says 57 years old (= before 23 Feb 1882, i.e. most likely 1881). So the range is 1879 - 1882, with 1880/81 looking most likely. That is the best I have. I'll email you the certificates so you can see for yourself. Thanks again.
This is a long shot, but i thought was worth a consideration
This is the Frances/Francis HARGRAVES and wife Mary that had been mentioned as "possible" parents of Ernest Hargraves.
Looking at the actual census digital image ( close up ) i would say the "e" in Frances is an "i" ...and a transcript error.
Neither would i be concerned that this Francis occ: was a lead Miner....( Francis Occ: "Weaver" being on Ernest's marriage cert )....as there were Cotton Millers located on various pages, and a change in occupation was not unusual. Yorkshire was also booming with woolen and cotton mills.
1871 Census... Hebden Yorkshire.
Name: Mary Hargraves
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Frances Hargraves
Gender: Female
Where born: Hebden, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Hebden and Linton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Skipton
Sub-registration district: Grassington
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 57
Household Members: Name Age
Frances Hargraves 34
Mary Hargraves 2
On Ernest Hargraves marriage cert to Olive Blanche Clark in 1913 he states his birth place as LINCOLN Eng.
If you noticed this 1871 Census ( above ) the civil parish is..... "Hebden & Linton".Hebden being in the parish of Linton
Could it be possible that the marriage cert for Ernest Hargraves birth place, should read LINTON, and not LINCOLN!!, and if so, a spelling or soundex error written on marriage cert by the Vicar at St.Mathews church Prahran, in Melbourne.
LINTON could sound like LINCOLN with a strong Yorkshire voice ....lol
My geography also tells me that Linton is a village and civil parish in the Craven district of North Yorkshire.
Anyway.....doing this FH search,one must think a little outside the square with our U.K ancestors that came to Oz with there various county dialects......and it is food for thought, and may be worth further investigation.
The absents of children on census "could" mean anything.....ie: they were living with grandparents or realatives during numeration, and i have found this with my own Ancestors missing off various census, and living/visiting grandparents two villages away.
The best way to see if this couple on the 1871 & 1881 census ( Francis & Mary Hargraves ) had any children ( apart from U.K free BDM ), is if by chance they are still alive?. on the new 1911 Census.....is that the 1911 lists children born...... deceased/and alive....regardless of wether they are still live with there parents, or have moved elswhere. I dont have access to the 1911census unfortunatley at the moment.
Perhaps someone else on SGR does?
1881 census and seen here as Francis with an "i"......Mary is now seen as Mary Ann Hargraves
Name: Mary Ann Hargraves
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Francis Hargraves
Gender: Female
Where born: Hebden, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Hebden
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Lead Miner Wife
Registration district: Skipton
Sub-registration district: Grassington
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Hargraves 44
Mary Ann Hargraves 38
All in all...a possible?
Tony
Do not go where the path may lead,go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Tony, you are wonderfully indefatigable! Thanks again for your interest.
Your post takes us back to my original question - could the Hebden Francis & Mary be the ones, even though they were not in Lincoln, he was not a weaver and they show no children on the census? You have drawn my attention to Linton, which I didn't notice, and that could well be the answer. But proving it is going to be difficult.
But I will go back to that challenge! Thanks again.
Having spent a lot of my childhood in and around Grassington, I can tell you
that Hebden and Linton are lovely. I can also tell you that there were lead
mines in Grassington.
So Tony may have got on the right track.
Last edited by Q on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Just remember that there was a old folk tale in Grassington that the lead
mines were haunted. Might try a google search and see if I can turn up
anything.
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
erich wrote:Tony, you are wonderfully indefatigable! Thanks again for your interest.
lol....Eric.
Well... they can run, but they cant hide Eric....lol
It was just mainly looking at another avenue, and may lead to nothing...but nothing ventured, nothing gained.?
It took me 4 years to track down my own Grandmother. She died before i was born, and finding her real birth surname was some task.
Her origins were from Yorkshire back to 1640. Her name was Constance born.1888 Ajmer'e India. ( her parents moving from Eng. to India 1870s) so i had found.
She eventually arrived with my grandfather from India via Sri-Lanka to Fremantle Aus. in 1915 and was known in Australia as Constance Burrowcopley.
I searched high and low for this surname in India & England for years, but every path lead to a dead end. I put her in the to hard basket, and started researching her forefathers, as i knew her father was Nelson Burrow-copley ( seen sometimes as Nelson B-Copley ) born Brighton Sussex,1841 and then discovered some time later her Grandfather was John Borough Copley b.1802 York ( Yorkshire )......and his father was Israel Copley b.1760 Leeds, Yorkshire.....who married an Ann Burrow. What my grandmother had done in Australia (some 100 years later )was take the surname from her great grandmother Ann "Burrow" and add it onto her surname "Copley" giving the name.... Burrowcopley.
Her birth record in India ( Bombay ) 16th Aug 1888 shows her as Constance Joyce Copley
A few years ago an entered transcript on the 1881 Census in Essex, Eng.....stated my Granduncle's occupation was "Milkman"....so i checked all Dairy's around the Villages he was born/bapt in for months trying to find what Dairy he may have worked in, and who for? ( finding nothing )
Upon a very close up look at the "actual" 1881 digital census ( when it came on-line ) i discovered his occupation was not "Milkman" as transcribed, but in fact "Musician"........which tied in with my grandad ( his brother ) who also was a musician in Australia.
My Great Grandmother ( Mary Walsh )b.1841 Ireland married here in Melbourne Victoria in 1867
Her marriage cert states her birth place written as "Mountainallec" Queens County, Ireland.
I had found this later to be the town of "Mountmellick" Kilkenny Ireland.
I could add another 50 or so spelling/mistranscribed/entry/white lies/fibs...ect,ect errors..... found on my Family records.
Sorry.......but I dont trust any of them, and this had lead me to be very sceptical of what is written........ and indefatigable.....lol
Yorkshire BDM's are on-line....but unfortunatley not all complete.
SusyQ. Very interesting link.
When Barb and i holidayed in York in 2005 we kicked ourselves when we arrived back in Oz.... for not driving further out into the surrounding country side of Yorkshire itself, but we were limited in time..........but will return to Yorkshire hopefully one day, because there is so much to see.............My Richardson's were from Leeds ( my mothers side ) and of course my Copley's among others, from various Yorkshire towns/villages ( Woolen Mills ) from the 17th Century.
Do not go where the path may lead,go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Tony, as a child we had a caravan that was based in the Yorkshire Dales. We spent every weekend
from Easter to October/Nov and all school holidays there. At the time my father had a business and it
was unheard of to close for holidays. This way we managed to get away as children. In the summer months
from about June to September we took the caravan to Whitby.
I have many very happy memories of these times. The lead mines in Grassington were obviously no longer
in use, but every year there was a car trial held at the lead mines and it was great fun.
The thing I liked most about being in the Dales, was that all the villages had a Sports day on the Green.
We visited them all over the summer months. The Fell races were very popular. At Bank Holidays, Easter and "Whitsuntide"
the Morris men ( Dancers) always came. There was a fair ground that came to Grassington every year. And all these event were
family affairs.
"Whitsuntide" a bank holiday that we had around May. It was always 7 weeks after Easter. A 'tide' in Yorkshire was a
fair ground, the same as the ones that are at Agrigultural Shows in Australia. They travelled around all the different areas,
setting up in parks. These were the places that we were not allowed to go to without an adult, especially as we became teenagers.
"whitsun" was obviously Whit Sunday . I think it has now been replaced by Spring Bank Holiday.
I am sure that if you went back to Yorkshire you could spend 4 or 5 weeks happily exploring all the villages. I hope they haven't changed too
much from my childhood days. Looks like Grassington is still very much the same.
Hebden and Linton are lovely, Linton is where the rich folks live.
I must check on Whitsunday.
Last edited by Q on Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Apologies for the gratutitus advice about the marriage certificate 
. 
