Experienced people, what would you guess?

[Q]

WHY IS PENTECOST SOMETIMES CALLED "WHITSUNDAY"?

A tradition of some churches in ancient times was to baptize adult converts to the faith on Pentecost. The newly baptized catechumens would wear white robes on that day, so Pentecost was often called "Whitsunday" or "White Sunday" after these white baptismal garments. Many Christian calendars, liturgies, and hymnals (particularly those from the Episcopal/Anglican tradition) still use this term.

Abviously an old religous holiday.

[erich]

Suzy

They are wonderful memories! Thanks for sharing them.

My story is a little like Tony's. I have been to UK and Yorkshire twice, and each time they were flying visits, trying to see as much as we could of places all over UK that we were interested in.

Ten years ago we did a flying trip that included Haworth (my wife and daughter were Bronte fans) and the lakes District (we are all Arthur Ransome fans). That took us through the edge of the dales but that was as close as we got.

Three years ago we travelled through Yorkshire on the way to Scotland (from London). We had a few hours to spare, the next day on the trip to Berwick-on-Tweed, and faced a choice of how to spend those few precious hours. We chose to travel via Malton and Goathland to Whitby, but I kind of wish now we'd chosen to go by a more inland route that would have taken us through the western edge of the dales. Maybe next time.

Another interest of mine is the writings of William Mayne, especially the "Earthfasts" series, set in a fictionalised Arkengarthdale.

Finally, I note from the lead mining website you posted that the mines closed around 1880, about the time my grandfather was born. This could explain why a former lead miner became a weaver, if that in fact turns out to be the case.

Thanks again.

[erich]

I could add another 50 or so spelling/mistranscribed/entry/white lies/fibs...ect,ect errors..... found on my Family records.

Sorry.......but I dont trust any of them, and this had lead me to be very sceptical of what is written........ and indefatigable.....lol

Great stories Tony! And even with my very short time in this game, I can see that transcription errors, wrong spelling and perhaps false information for some reason are not uncommon. This leads me to a question .....

When a person migrated from England to Australia, this change presented a great opportunity for them to "re-invent" themselves if they had something to hide. Identification, including passports, could be used to make this more difficult. Wikipedia says: "About 1855 passports became a standard document issued solely to British nationals. They were a simple single-sheet paper document, and by 1914 included a photograph of the holder."

Does anyone know if passports or other identification were used in practice during the period 1850 - WWI with sufficient rigour to make it difficult for someone to give a false name or birthplace when entering Australia?

[Tony Oz]

Does anyone know if passports or other identification were used in practice during the period 1850 - WWI with sufficient rigour to make it difficult for someone to give a false name or birthplace when entering Australia?

Eric. Not sure what information others might offer.....but personally,i cant give a definative answer to your question. However, from my own research into Emigration from the U.K to Australia into the later half of 19th century.No permission, passport or application form was necessary for British subjects, in order to emigrate from Britain or Ireland to Australia, and passports were not mandatory for British travelers until 1914........ but some passports or certificates were issued before that year. An index to the names of passport applicants for some earlier years is online, but i cant remember the site off hand.
I will have a look for it.


Also...... Crew members working on board ship did not need passports/documentation when arriving in various ports,as they were surposed to be returning from where they came ( U.K ) ...but that didnt stop my granduncle ( crew member - married-one child ) who "jumped ship" in South Australia in 1871-2 .....married twice more in Oz ( S.A ) with his wife still back in the U.K...... according to his grandaughter..... and census records.



It was only when financial assistance, from or via the government was required, did application forms have to be completed.( "Assisted passage" )................."Unassisted" immigrants came out to Australia on their own passage, paying their own cabin class or steerage fare. During the 1850's and 1860's these were most often gold seekers or wealthy merchants, from what i have read.

My own grandparents "British subjects" ( on my fathers side ) arrived in Australia in 1913.
My mother had told me that my Gran had paid for her passage out by working on board ship ( as a Nurse )
I could never find their arrival on any shipping records......until one day i came across an "Invalid Pension Claim" document tucked away in my mothers cupboards. My gran had lived with her until she died. The document was dated 1930 and had been filled out by my grandmother claiming a Invalid pension for my grandfather. I noticed reading the form it stated "Date and place of marriage" ...."British subject and where born"......and if so,from what Port did you sail "Where,When,.....and what ship to Australia."
From this document i then learnt that they had married 6th Oct 1910 in Mussoorie India ( She was married alright...but not to my grandfather ..long story...lol ) then left from Columbo India, on the ship S.S MOREA and arrived Fremantle W.A in the August of 1913.....To this day i have never been able to find there arrival to Oz written on any passenger ship record in 1913 ( 4 years either side ) let alone the S.S.MOREA.( which did arrive in Fremantle & Melbourne in 1913 )
But i do know my gran and grandad did a runner from India ( long story )...and possibly used a false surname on board to avoid being tracked down by an angry husband and father she left behind in India..........so if a passport or birth cert was needed, she surely didnt use it to get here, and neither did her boyfriend ( my grandad )...Perhaps they jumped ship too

[JALimestone Plains]

1911 find my past census two Francis both too young
A few Mary's
HARGRAVES, Mary Head Widow F 66 1845 Yorks Halifax VIEW
HARGRAVES, Alice Daughter Single F 29 1882 Winder Cop Yorks Halifax
The rest two young or married to a Hargraves

[Mary in Oz]

Eric You should question everthing.. I have a gggrandfather who invented a father to make his marriage cetificate look nicer,,He was born in the poorhouse /father unknown..Another ggrandfather who changed his name when his first wife died and married again and had another family under another surname,, when one of the first family daughters married he signed it with his first surname..that took a while to find out,,
A certificate of marriage with the wrong surname for the bride..instead of Woodall it had Rushall..had it checked by the GRO and it is correct so someone entered the wrong name in the records..
A grandfather who said he was born in one county but baptised in another and cant find out why he said he was born where he said..
So you can see there are a lot of things to think about when searching records..

[Dizzi R.I.P.]

HI MARY
COMPLETLY AGREE WITH YOU
AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT
THE ANSWER MAY NOT BE WHAT WE WANT

[erich]

Yeah, thanks Mary, those are interesting examples. And I agree, and I will be trying quite a few alternative approaches shortly (I'm currently taking a short breather from my more frantic searching). I think the difficulty will be that I may find the correct solution but may be unable to prove it or know it from the incorrect ones. But I'll try. Thanks. : )

[JALimestone Plains]

hello Erich, happy new year to you adn your, have you got any further with your research?

[erich]

Hello JAL. I have taken a break over summer, to give my fevered brain a little rest, so I haven't made any more progress on my grandfather Ernest. But I have made some progress on my grandmother's birth, due to the sharp eyes of a relative who looked up original birth records some years ago. She saw the name of a 19 year old unmarried girl who gave birth on my grandmother's birth day, at the "correct" location, and the child had the same first name. It thus appears certain she was adopted, and neither the presumed father nor stepmother were her birth parents. I am following this up through adoption records, though there are limits on what they can tell me, but I really need little confirmation.

How have you been going?