Where else to find information?

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Tony Oz
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Tony Oz » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am

Hi Eric.

As shown on John James Duncan Clark's death cert, there is no Olive Blanche Clark listed as a child of John's......as you are aware.
Filled in by Charlotte Clark herself ( informant )

Far be it for me to say what your next move should be,but speaking for myself, my next move would be to purchase the death cert of Charlotte Clark ( Bond ) to see if Olive Clark is listed on her death cert, and/or any other children.

I realise its easy for me to say" Buy this and that" and it can get quite expensive sometimes for little or no return, but to close this chapter to whether Olive is a maternal child of John and Charlotte Clark's you need to check both death certs for John and Charlotte......to see who are nominated as their children.

The main point is to try and find out if in fact, Olive Blanch Clark is John and Charlotte Clark's maternal child or just paternal/Adopted/or just a hand over by other family members to raise as there own.

Charlotte Clark death cert will also show an informant ( possibly Family member or relation ) and if Olive Blanche Clark is not listed on this cert....then at least strengthen's the fact that she was not. Olive Blanche Clark/e is definatley not registered on Vic. Index's circ.1891....but then again i can find no children listed....nor the children listed on JohnJ.D Clark's death cert....but perhaps these 3 all died in infancy/newborns and therefore never registered.?

If John J.D Clark married Charlotte Bond in 1875 ( as their marriage cert shows ).....what cannot be found on Vic birth index's, are any registered births from 1875 ( their marriage ) right up to surposedly Olive Blanche Clark birth in 1891 ( which we also cannot find )
1875 to 1891 is a gap of 16 years......with not one childs birth registered ( very unusual? )..........but John James Duncan Clark's death cert ( filled out by Charlotte his wife ) shows 3 children all deceased, and if it was myself.......I would be very interested to see if these same three children, are listed on Charlotte Clark's death cert?....and also to see if Olive Blanche Clark is listed?


My other move would be to see where John J.D. Clark and Charlotte were between 1875 and 1891...and were they actually living in Victoria when Olive Blanche Clark was surposedly born in 1891 in Prahran/Malvern. This can be done by earlier electorol rolls at normally your local Library....or the "Ask a Librarian" web site for Victoria
If they cannot be found on Electorol rolls in Victoria from 1875 to 1891/2/3/4 ....then how can they have a daughter ( Olive ) born in 1891 in Melbourne.


I have checked the 1891 "Womens suffrage" web site in Melbourne Victoria ( as this just happened to be the same year Olive Blanche Clark was born 1891 ) but there was no petion sighned by a Charlotte Clark or C.Clark
Dosent mean anything....but at least it shows her name is not on the list.


I have also checked the NLA ( Newspapers ) 1800 to 1954 for a John James Duncan CLARK between 1860 and 1900 just out of interest to see if he was located in any newspapers around the time of birth ( 1891 ) for Olive B.Clark....but found nothing.

Only a snippet from 1866 in the Argus.

NLA Newspaper The Argus( Melbourne Vic. ) Wednesday 11th April 1866

Insolvent Court. ( John James Duncan CLARK )

Meetings were held and closed in the estates of the following :-
Thomas Murray of Teasdale, Miner....Joseph Hayes of Jericho, late a storekeeper......John James Duncan Clark , of Sale , late a Mail -Contractor..


So just to let you know, we are still on the case.....and the ears and eyes are open.
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Tony Oz
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Tony Oz » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:57 am

A blanket search of all Olive Blanche ( surnames ) listed registered on Vic, Digger Index for Victoria 1889 to 1901

Surname: DISNEY
Given Names: Olive Blanch
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Jas Herbt
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Isabella HILL
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: MELBOURNE SOUTH
Death Place:
Year: 1891
Reg. Number: 35095

Surname: LEEDER
Given Names: Olive Blanch
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Jno Hy
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Hannah ATKINSON
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: SWANWATERS
Death Place:
Year: 1895
Reg. Number: 33117

Surname: MASON
Given Names: Olive Blanch
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Chas
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Eliza Maria DAVIS
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: WBEAL
Death Place:
Year: 1892
Reg. Number: 8728

Surname: PHELAN
Given Names: Olive Blanch
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: William Elgar
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Carol Mary VIGAR
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: GEEL
Death Place:
Year: 1893
Reg. Number: 31957

Surname: THOMAS
Given Names: Olive Blanch
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Wm
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Margt GOODAY
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: FOOTSCRAY
Death Place:
Year: 1889
Reg. Number: 21903

Surname: WHITE
Given Names: Olive Blanch
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Jno
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Mary Ann BROWN
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: SCORESBY
Death Place:
Year: 1892
Reg. Number: 27155

Surname: ANDREWS
Given Names: Olive Blanch Bethea
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Francis Arth
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Ellen TONKIN
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: HAWTHORN
Death Place:
Year: 1890
Reg. Number: 13600

Surname: SKINNER
Given Names: Olive Blanch Constan
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Richd
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Elizth Margt CONSTANTINE
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: FOOTSCRAY
Death Place:
Year: 1889
Reg. Number: 31303

Surname: APPLETON
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Alf Ernt
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Letitia Mary MENNER
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: ST KILDA
Death Place:
Year: 1901
Reg. Number: 14626

Surname: BEVERIDGE
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Jas
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Annie Isabella GRAHAM
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: QUEENSTOWN
Death Place:
Year: 1889
Reg. Number: 25285

Surname: FINNING
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Jno
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Nellie Blanche MILNE
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: CHEWTON
Death Place:
Year: 1898
Reg. Number: 17615

Surname: HOSKINGS
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Benj
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Emma Amelia ALLEN
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: GRANTVILLE
Death Place:
Year: 1889
Reg. Number: 4016

Surname: HOUGHTON
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Jas
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Ophelia Eliza JEEVES
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: LDALE
Death Place:
Year: 1900
Reg. Number: 4455

Surname: HUMPHRIS
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: John Edwin
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Lily Blanche WALLIS
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: ROCHESTER
Death Place:
Year: 1900
Reg. Number: 14113

Surname: MCCALL
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Francis
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Ada Elizth CLARK
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: SOUTH YARRA
Death Place:
Year: 1895
Reg. Number: 15986

Surname: SPONG
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Hy Fred
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Cath BERRY
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: CARL
Death Place:
Year: 1896
Reg. Number: 26301

Surname: UGLOW
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Wm Hy
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Maria Cath MANNING
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: COLLINGWOOD
Death Place:
Year: 1896
Reg. Number: 19017

Surname: WRAGG
Given Names: Olive Blanche
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Edw Alf
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Jane Elizth NORRIS
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: MBORO
Death Place:
Year: 1892
Reg. Number: 15299

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Olive Blanche Vic
Event: B
Sex: F
Spouse Surname/Father: Unknown
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Emma Jane SMITH
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: RICHMOND
Death Place:
Year: 1889
Reg. Number: 25480
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erich
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: erich » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:49 pm

Thanks again for your ideas and help, Tony. A few comments ...

(a) I do have Charlotte's death certificate and it doesn't mention Olive, not any of the other children - it says "no issue". But this may be simply an accident. Charlotte died in a car accident, and the informant was a policeman reporting from the inquest. When in Melbourne recently I looked up the inquest file and found that (i) she died after getting off a tram, walking to the kerb, then apparently stumbling back onto the road and hit by a car - hence the need for an inquest to determine fault, and (ii) the only relative mentioned was a niece (Maud Holmes) who lived nearby and gave evidence, but does not appear to have provided information of a family nature. I intend to try to trace her anyway, just in case something comes up. So, as I said to JAL on another thread, there seems to be all of five possibilities:

1. JJD & Charlotte were her true parents but estrangement from Charlotte led to the stepmother story.
2. JJD was the father by another woman.
3. Charlotte was the mother but with another father (doubtful and impossible to prove).
4. There were other birth parents and JJD & Charlotte adopted. Possibly one of the birth parents was a Clark, hence Charlotte's resentment of Olive (if that story is true).
5. Completely different parents and Olive fabricated the story of having JJD and Charlotte as parents (for whatever reason).

(b) I too have wondered why none of the four (not three) children listed on JJD's death cert have not been registered. I checked at the cemetery when in Melbourne, and there are (in a a couple of other graves) "stillborn Clark twins" and a couple of other children with the right names, but no way so far of determining if any of them are the ones in question. But I guess it is possible that stillborn children would not be registered thought they might be given names. I intend to try to trace the other people in those graves (should be easy in the twins case as two other burials have the middle names of Adolphus and Redolphus) in that leads somewhere.

(c) Thanks for the list of Olive Blanches. I think you may have sent me something like that before, but I will check through it again. The last one (mother = Emma Jane Smith) looks the most hopeful to me, and I have looked briefly for her without turning up anything of substance (yet).

(d) The electoral rolls or census look the best avenue so far - to at least identify where they were and weren't (might also help with my grandfather who is similarly mysterious). What do you suggest is the best way to approach that? Is it through my local library???

(e) I'm confused about the insolvency reference to JJD - the "estate" reference suggests death, but he obviously wasn't dead then - though his father died around then, he wasn't insolvent as he had a will with assets. What does this information mean, do you think?

Any thoughts on any of the other options I suggested, like school or medical records?

Thanks again.

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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:54 am


o
 Olive Blanche Clark
o
 Birth

 28 Jan 1891
 in Prahan Victoria Australia
 Death

 May 1981
 in Sydney New South Wales Australia



o More options
• Parents & Siblings
o
o John James Duncan Clark (1843-1902)

o
o Charlotte Bond (1849-1922)


o
o Margaret Clark (1875-1902)

o
o Albert Clark (1876-1902)

o
o James Clark (1877-1902)

o
o John Clark (1878-1902)

• Spouse & Children
o
o Ernest M Hargraves (1879-1939)

• No Children
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:05 am

John J D Clark
1843-1902Charlotte Bond

1849-1922Duncan Clark
1818-1865Hessey Beckett

1823-1874William Bond
1821-1885Harriett Young

1815-1876John Clark
1780-Agnes Mckay

1780-John J Beckett
1799-Esther McBeth
1800-
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:08 am

Ranton-George TreeView Family Tree
View family tree Owner: johnr700
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:56 am

Olive Blanche Clark
o
Birth
28 Jan 1891
in Prahan Victoria Australia
Death
May 1981
in Sydney New South Wales Australia

MOTHER

Charlotte Bond
o
Birth
Jun 1849
in London Middlesex England UK
Death
3 April 1922
in Melbourne East Vic Australia

FATHER

o
John James Duncan Clark
o
Birth
25 October 1843 in St Kilda Victoria Australia
Death
21 September 1902
in Prahan Victoria Australia

1875
21 Aug
Age: 31
Marriage to Charlotte Bond
Registrar Fitzroy Victoria Australia
Occupation: Omnibus Driver Residence: Burnley Street Richmond


Duncan Clark
o
Birth
26 January 1818
in West Greenock Renfrew Scotland
Death
29 April 1865
in Turf Hotel Sale Victoria Australia

MARRIEDDate
28 July 1841
Location
Melbourne Victoria Australia
to Duncan Clark


Hessey Beckett
o
Birth
1823
in Strabane Londonderry Ireland
Death
24 July 1874
in Nuntin Sale Victoria Australia
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:06 am

DUNCAN & HESSEY 'S CHILDREN
Anne Jane Clark (1842-1924)
John James D Clark (1843-1902)
Hessey Clark (1845-1895)
Robert William Clark (1847-1923)
Mary Marion Clark (1849-1897)
Margaret Sarah Clark (1851-1890)
Eleanor Clark (1853-1884)
Caroline Clark (1855-1882)
Daniel Augustus Clark (1857-1858)
Albert William Clark (1860-1883)
-------------------------------------------------------
JOHN JAMES DUNCAN CLARK & CHARLOTTS CHILDREN
Margaret Clark (1875-1902)
Albert Clark (1876-1902)
James Clark (1877-1902)
John Clark (1878-1902)
Olive Blanche Clark (1891-1981)
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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:47 am

I looked at the Ranton George tree - the birth record linked to Olive Blanch doesnot reflect the infor on her profile - it is for the Olive Blanch born in NSW in 1889. I am not sure how correct the other info is - only you Eric can compare.

Sent a message "Hello ...................grandmother, Olive Blanch Clark who married Ernest Hargraves. I found her on your tree with a birthdate of 28 January 1891 in Prahan Victoria - the birth record image linked to it is of a birth in Sydney. We have searched high and low for a birth record in Victoria but with no luck. Hoping you can shed some light on this for us

Regards

....
I guess we wait and see
:bh

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Re: Where else to find information?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:04 am

CAN YOU CHECK THIS OUT PLEASE SPELT MOQUILIAN
Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1949


Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish


View Image

Preview
Name: Olive Moquilian Hargraves
There's more to see
Spouse Name Marriage Date
Marriage Place Registration Place
Registration Year Registration Number
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Name: Olive Moquilian Hargraves
Spouse: Gordon John Turnbull
Marriage: year - location
Marriage: year - location
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