How complete are electoral rolls?

JALimestone Plains
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:46 pm

I found this which would seem to indicate that Ernest had the right to vote so should have enrolled when it became compulsory

British Empire immigrants could participate in electoral politics on arrival, though only Australian citizens could stand for Parliament. Non-British Europeans could apply to become naturalised British subjects, until the first Australian Citizenship Act in 1948 created the new status of Australian citizen. Non-Europeans were effectively excluded from permanent residence, the precursor to citizenship. It was not until 1965 that non-Europeans could apply for citizenship (after fifteen years residence compared to Europeans after five years) and then in a cascade of reforms they were given equivalence the following year, after Australia signed onto the International Convention to Combat All Forms of Racial Discrimination in 1966.

Erich have you access to electoral rolls? If not I could go to the National Library and check the 1913 rolls foe Victoria, and previous years for Cape Jarvis?
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:14 am

JA,

Yes I have the funeral notice and the death certificate, but apart from things that so far haven't helped me (place of birth and parents, which so far we cannot trace) they only give limited information on his whereabouts in Australia.

This is what I think I know:

  • Arrived in NSW about 1899 (death certificate). Don't know if he was elsewhere in Australia before that, but the question was "how long in the Australasian Colonies or States", so the inference is that 1899 was when he arrived in Australia. If he arrived much earlier than that, when he would have been about 18, one would think he might have come with his family.)
  • Married in Melbourne in 1913, but address given as Jervis Bay, NSW (marriage certificate). I don't know how he met his wife when they were that far apart (no internet then!), but you'd think he might have been in Victoria for some of the recent past. I vaguely recall my late mother telling me how they met, but unfortunately I don't remember.
  • Lived in Jervis Bay after the marriage for a year or two. As his address was at the Naval College, and it didn't open until 1915, I'm thinking he must have worked on the construction, meaning he may have left in 1915.
  • He was in Gunnedah 1915-1917 at least (both children born there, and listed on Sands Directories as being there).
  • He returned to Sydney by about 1919 at the latest, after which the family split up. I'm less interested after that, and have sufficient information on his second marriage, his child and his death in 1939.
My main reason for wanting to trace this is to try to check when he was here and where he first lived, as that might help with looking up shipping and immigration records.

I have the Ancestry electoral information, plus our local library has some electoral information. If you think there is anything better than that in the National Library, and if you have time and interest to check it out, I would be very grateful, but I wouldn't think of asking you to do that. My ideas were:

(1) To check if he was on electoral rolls at Gunnedah (1915-1919), where I know he was. If not, then we may expect not to find him anywhere. But if he was there, then we could maybe hope to find him elsewhere.

(2) To do the same with Jervis Bay (1912-1915).

(3) Then to try to find him in 1906 when he would have been about 25 (he may have been only 20-22 in 1903, and may not have registered that young).

Thanks for your interest.

Eric

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:22 am

Hello Erich, had a brief spell at the National Library, no luck as yet for Ernest at Jervis Bay electoral rolls 1913-to 1915 or before. But I need to call AEC again and get the subdistrict. Jervis Bay was in the electorate of Illawarra in 1912, then in 1913 Eden Monaro. It came under the ACT in 1915.

1916 electoral roll for Gwydr - Gunnadah - 1916 and 1917, both he and Olive. He is cook, she home duties. 1919 rolls were missing unfortunatly, and they were not there in 1921.
1913 electoral roll for Balaclava Victoria, sub district St Kilda West, Olive Blanche Clark, Marine Parade, home duities, no one else I could see at that address with the name Clark- also no Ernest Hargraves in that sub division but as his address was Jervis Bay one would not have expected him there. The Olive ties with the address on the marriage certificate. Also a bit further up the page was a John James Clark - architect - maybe no relation to her father.

Not sure where to go next and this does not help you really, only confirming what you knew already. :roll: But it does highlight that Ancestry search does not bring up all the electoral roles. I'll keep my thinking cap on.
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:29 am

Intersting that Olive Blanche Clark is still enrolled in St Kilda West 1914 according to Ancestry, address marine parade which makes me think she was not enrolled then as Olive Hargraves.
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:43 am

I have noticed on Ancestry some electoral rolls for olive Blanche hargraves in Glebe and also an Olive Macquillan hargraves school teacher. At one stage they were in the same street! Then Olive mcQullan went to Broken Hill as a teacher.
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:44 am

JALimestone Plains wrote:Hello Erich, had a brief spell at the National Library ..... But it does highlight that Ancestry search does not bring up all the electoral roles.

Thanks a lot for your efforts on my behalf. Can you elaborate slightly on what the National Library had that Ancestry does not? Is it that not all records are digitised, so you have to go to the NLA to see some of them?

1916 electoral roll for Gwydr - Gunnadah - 1916 and 1917, both he and Olive. He is cook, she home duties. 1919 rolls were missing unfortunatly, and they were not there in 1921.

That all figures, thanks. Shows Ernest & Blanche were both registered by then, which is good, because I was wondering if he hadn't registered until much later.

1913 electoral roll for Balaclava Victoria, sub district St Kilda West, Olive Blanche Clark, Marine Parade, home duties,

Yep, that fits too.

Also a bit further up the page was a John James Clark - architect - maybe no relation to her father.

It is curious that Olive's father was John James Duncan Clark, but I'm pretty sure he was never an architect!

Olive Blanche Clark is still enrolled in St Kilda West 1914 according to Ancestry

She should by than have been at Jervis Bay, but I would guess she just hadn't changed her address yet.

I have noticed on Ancestry some electoral rolls for olive Blanche hargraves in Glebe and also an Olive Macquillan hargraves school teacher. At one stage they were in the same street! Then Olive mcQullan went to Broken Hill as a teacher.

Yes this is all correct.

Not sure where to go next and this does not help you really, only confirming what you knew already.

Yes, but I think that helps. At least shows me they were both enrolled by 1913, and that I need the NLA records, not just Ancestry. Thanks again.

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:33 pm

Erch, I think Sir Tones has said previously, and it is my experience also, that Ancestry, while claiming to have full data sets, in some cases do not. For example, the Gunnadah electoral rolls should show up with the Hargraves in 1916 but do not.

The electoral rolls are on mircofiche at the national library, not digitalised. What I did was use the reader to scan the records - it can take some time which is why I need to know which sub districy Jervis Bay was in. Both the Illawara and Eden electorates, are huge, although few people there are lots of sub districts and I kept getting lost so want to double check. I also want to work back from the record on Ancestry LM found which may give a clue as to when he went to Marubra.

Also there are some shipping records and also UK birth records whic could be checked on fiche.
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:07 am

Thanks JA, all this is very helpful to a novice like me. I have relative and friends in Canberra, so I can see I need to come down some time and spend some time at the NLA. Do you know if the same information might be in State libraries, like in Sydney? I guess I should check with them. Thanks again.

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:57 am

Erich, not sure if Stae libraries have full sets. If you decide to come to Canberra (in the next few weeks it is Floriade too - if you like flowers) I am happy to go with you to the National Library :D
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:15 am

JALimestone Plains wrote:Erich, not sure if State libraries have full sets. If you decide to come to Canberra (in the next few weeks it is Floriade too - if you like flowers) I am happy to go with you to the National Library

Yeah, I'm not sure either, but I guess I'll find out! I doubt I'll be there in the next few weeks. We used to come down for Floriade, but weren't planning to this year - we might be heading for Melbourne, which, among other things, offers some opportunities to chase up Melbourne connections. Thanks for your kind offer to show me the ropes at the NLA, I may see if that's possible when I do make it. Thanks again.


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