How complete are electoral rolls?

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erich
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:50 pm

JAL

Somewhere I said I'd get back to you after I tried to find any information about Olive Blanche Clark in Melbourne. I have now returned, but have little to report.

1. I could find no baptismal record at the church where she was later married. I didn't really expect to, but one can always hope! So her birth remains undocumented.

2. I visited her apparent father's grave and spoke to someone at the cemetery, but there was little information. Her father was buried in a grave actually purchased by someone else 30 years earlier (C Clark, presumably a relative, and perhaps his younger sister Caroline). Curiously, though there are three people in that grave (how do they manage that???) there is no C Clark buried there, and the first burial was someone of another surname. The other two are him (John James Duncan Clark) and his wife, and Olive's stepmother, Charlotte.

3. I found that her stepmother died after she stepped off a tram and was hit by a car. A sad end, and of interest, but no use in tracing Olive's parents.

I'm coming to the view that her apparent father may actually have adopted her, and she was actually the child of a relative who (perhaps) was not married. I think Tony suggested this as a possibility. It fits with the fact that his death certificate does not show her as "issue".

Unless I can find some more information, I think it may forever remain a mystery. My only hope, I think, is to try to follow up the descendants of a couple of relatives at the time whose names I found while checking the information above, and hope somewhere someone has some family oral history that explains something. A pretty long shot, but without birth and baptismal information, I have little else.

So that appears to be that for now. Thanks for your interest.

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:10 pm

POSSIBILITY CLARK NOT RELATED
WAS IT A PAUPERS GRAVE,,,HENCE 3
AND LATER CLARK FAMILIE HAD A RELATIVE
IN THE GRAVE AND CLSRK PURCHASED THE PLOT
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:26 pm

Olive Blanche Clark
Spouse: Ernest Hargraves
Marriage: location
Marriage: year - location


I ONLY HAVE ANCESTRY UK
WHAT YEAR WAS SHE BOR
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:16 pm

According to the staff at the cemetery, it was not a paupers grave. It was purchased by a C Clark (presumably a relative), probably about 1871 for the burial of Jane Knight (presumably also a relative, though I will try to check that). Later JJD & Charlotte Clark were buried there, but not their 4 children who died very young, and not C Clark himself/herself. Lots of mysteries!

Unless, of course, the cemetery office lady was mistaken, and it was originally a pauper's grave that was later purchased by Charlotte on the death of her husband, as you suggest. But is this even possible?? I wouldn't have thought so.

I don't know what year Olive was born (that is the problem) as I have no birth documentation, but I believe it was 1891, in Melbourne, but perhaps with a different surname. Marriage is known, 1913 in Prahran Melbourne.

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:03 pm

IN THE UK 1955 MY GRAN BOUGHT THE PAUPER
GRAVE HER DAUGHTER IN LAW WAS IN :tt
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:12 pm

LONG SHOT
WAS SHE BORN IN THE UK


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Olive Blanch Clark
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Barton Regis
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 84 (click to
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:22 pm

TREE ON ANCESTRY
Blanche Clark
Birth
28 Jan 1891 in Prahan Victoria Australia Death
May 1981 in Sydney New South Wales Australia Save this person to your tree Comment on thisShow immediate family Hide immediate family
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Parents & Siblings

John James Duncan Clark (1843-1902) Charlotte Bond (1849-1922)


Margaret Clark (1875-1902) Albert Clark (1876-1902) James Clark (1877-1902) John Clark (1878-1902)
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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:50 am

Three to a grave, very possible the grave was bought with that in mind or so I found out when I visited Rookwood cemetery on the open day a few weeks ago :lol: :lol: - it just costs more as the
grave had to be dug deeper (I went to a grave digging talk at the Open Day, and also by the way, an embalming talk - :roll: all very interesting and little did I know that in the very near future some of the information might be of use :lol: )

WHo was the other person buried in the grave, did you get the full name? Also who was John James Duncan Clark's first wife -or is this the conundrum. Did Sir T find a marriage for him - I suppose not. I need to look again for a John James Duncan Clark tram driver on the electoral roll - when did he die?
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: JALimestone Plains » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:52 am

Did the cemetary record for him have where his funeral was, and the death details, or anything about his parents or where he lived when he died. Olive in the 1913 electoral role was home duties - I wonder who else might have been at that adddress. Will have to explore Ancestry to see if we can search by address on the roll, but doubt it.
:bh

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Re: How complete are electoral rolls?

PostAuthor: erich » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:55 am

Interesting info about graves, JAL. What led you to go to that open day?

Who was the other person buried in the grave, did you get the full name?

Jane Knight, 51, of Hawthorn, buried 18 March, 1871. I want to check her out further. The grave was purchased by a C Clark, presumably a relative (the only possible one I've found is JJD's sister Caroline who was only 16 at the time, so I'm thinking it was a cousin or something - I want to check this too). Interestingly, Hawthorn is a relatively well off suburb generally, and my relatives were mostly poorish (bus driver, barmaid, housekeeper, etc), from poorer suburbs like Richmond, Prahran & Brunswick. My guess is that Jane was a Clark married to a Mr Knight, and was perhaps a servant/worker in a richer home, but that is only a guess. I will try to check it.

who was John James Duncan Clark's first wife

As far as I know, he was only married once, to Charlotte in 1875. He was then 32 or 33 (though the marriage certificate says 27!) so he could have been married before, but I have no record.

when did he die?

He died 21 Sept 1902 in Prahran and was buried the next day.

Did the cemetary record for him have where his funeral was, and the death details, or anything about his parents

None of these. But I have his parents (Duncan Clark b1818 in Scotland, d 1865 in Sale, Victoria and Hessey Becket b 1823 Ireland, d 1874 Sale), and I have even seen their wills (nothing to JJD I'm afraid). I also have his death certificate.

or where he lived when he died.

His death certificate has 64 Bendigo St Prahran. I checked it out when in Melbourne and it is a neat little house now nicely renovated.

Olive in the 1913 electoral role was home duties - I wonder who else might have been at that adddress

Her marriage certificate (1913) says she was at Marine Parade St Kilda, whereas in 1913 Charlotte was in Grey St South Yarra. My mother's notes say the two "eloped", suggesting Olive and Charlotte were estranged by this time.

Not sure if any of that is helpful to you. I will be trying to follow up the few slender leads I have, but any ideas you have or info you find out will be welcome. My feeling is that it is possible that (1) JJD and Charlotte were the true parents, but an estrangement led to Charlotte not mentioning Olive again, (2) JJD was the true father to another woman, or (3) JJD adopted the child of a family member, and it will be difficult to choose between these. The only faint hope I have is, if (3) is true, I may find another person who has done family tree for another branch of the Clark family, and they have some information on this from the original parent before the adoption. But it's a faint hope.

Thanks again.


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