Experienced people, what would you guess?

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erich
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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: erich » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:59 pm

Dizzi wrote:Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950
about Mary Alice McGuillan
Name: Mary Alice McGuillan
Spouse Name: Francis Hargrave
Marriage Place: Victoria
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Year: 1870
Registration Number: 2765

These are the ones I now think he must be referring to as his parents. (It is easy to think that McGuillan and McQuillan could be confused.) Her death records show the marriage was in Stawell, Victoria. I will try to investigate several possibilities:

  1. Genuine child but disowned and not included in list on Mary's death records.
  2. Adopted child of an unmarried relative - say Mary's sister.
  3. Adopted or foster child of someone else.
  4. Total fabrication by Ernest (was that his birth name???),who used the names of people he knew as his false parents.
I don't suppose I can find out much about some of those possibilities, but I can try. Thanks.

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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: erich » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:09 pm

Mary in Oz wrote:What a bummer Eric.. know how you feel..we all have brick walls that we would like to knock down ..... dont give up....

Thanks. I certainly don't intend to give up! But finding a useful course of action isn't easy. I intend to (a) check out details of Francis & Mary's time in Australia to see if I find anything useful, (b) see if I can find any sisters of Mary (not a religious order! :D ) who gave birth to a child while unmarried, and (c) see if I can find an Ernest born to someone else where they were living at the time. Plenty to do, some little hope!!!

..it took me ages to trace my ggrandfather.. He was born a Crowley and married a Mary.. but she would have been to old to be my ggrandmother and the surname was now Hawley..but some brillian person whilst looking for the Hawley name in a census came up with the Crowley name,thinking they had been misstranscribed..,Their christian names all fitted all except for the surname.. I was just plain lucky to find someone on GR who had the name of one of the Crowley children in his tree, so I contacted him and it turned out to be the same family as we were lucky as the occupation of Coffee House Keeper was in both families. It turned out that he was a Crowley in his first life and when the first Mary died he married another Mary and changed his name to Hawley, but when one of the children of the first marriage married he signed Crowley on the marriage cerificate..so you can see they were very free with names in those days

What an interesting story. It is easy to see how Hargrave or Hargreaves could be confused, but Hawley and Crowley are close enough to be confused but different enough to be unexpected. And marrying two Mary's is doubly confusing. It must have been wonderful when you figured it all out.

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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:13 pm

HI ERIC
COINSIDENCE I LIVE IN
STANWELL MIDDLESEX
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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: erich » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:29 am

Dizzi wrote:HI ERIC
COINSIDENCE I LIVE IN
STANWELL MIDDLESEX


Nearly the same as Stawell!!! How long have you been there? Eleven years ago our family (4 of the 5 of us) visited UK and Germany, and we spent the last night in UK at Wraysbury, so we could be close to fly out to Germany the next morning, so we weren't all that far from you.

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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:39 am

ALL MY LIFE
THERE WAS A BIG HOUSE CALLED STANWELL PLACE
WHEN IT WAS KNOCKED SOWN THE BIG CLOCK ENDED UP IN AUSTRALIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stanwell_Place.jpg
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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: Mary in Oz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:04 am

Eric Think I have found the daughter Constance Shirley Hargraves married in the UK..There is a marriage for that name in Kensington London March Quarter 1953, to a
Henry Asgill-Tucker Vol 5cPage 2431..

Also look in Ancestry in the NSW ENTRANCE BOOKS FOR VERNON AND SOBROAN 1867-1911
Also the indexto CHILDRENS REGISTER OF STATE WARDS..
some Hargraves in there..
Hope this is of some help..
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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: erich » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:05 am

Mary in Oz wrote:Eric Think I have found the daughter Constance Shirley Hargraves married in the UK..There is a marriage for that name in Kensington London March Quarter 1953, to a
Henry Asgill-Tucker Vol 5cPage 2431..

Thanks Mary for continuing trying things on my behalf. I had found this marriage also, and was excited because it occurred in Kensington which is the name of one of the eastern suburbs of Sydney, and nearby to where Ernest and Constance lived. But then I found it was Kensington UK, and I thought it surely couldn't be the same person - not many people travelled to UK in those days, still less got married there, and probably not a 25 year old single girl. But you are right, at this stage anything is possible, and since I can't find her in Australia, perhaps this unusual event actually occurred. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Mary in Oz wrote:Also look in Ancestry in the NSW ENTRANCE BOOKS FOR VERNON AND SOBROAN 1867-1911
Also the index to CHILDRENS REGISTER OF STATE WARDS.. some Hargraves in there..

I'm not familiar with this - are you talking about Ancestry.com? (And who are Vernon and Sobroan???)

Thanks again.

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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: Dizzi R.I.P. » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:42 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Mabel Mary Hargrave
Mother: Mary Alice Mcquillin
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1878 - Pl Ea, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Elizabeth Alice Hargrave
Mother: Mary Alice Mcquillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1871 - Stawell, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death



Preview
Name: Clara Hargrave
Father's Name: Francis Hargrave
Mother's Name: Mary Alice Mcouillan
Birth Place: Pleasant Creek, Victoria
Registration Year: 1873
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 26096

See more

Name: Clara Hargrave
Mother: Mary Alice Mcouillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1873 - Pleasant Creek, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Edward Hargrave
Mother: Mary Mcouillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1875 - Pleasant Creek, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Frances Eleanor Hargrave
Mother: Mary Alice Mcquillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1880 - Pleasant Creek, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Eveline Catherine Hargrave
Mother: Mary Mcouillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1883 - Carlton, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Francis Leo Hargrave
Mother: Mary Mcquillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1886 - Melbourne, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Dilver Gregory Hargrave
Mother: Mary Mcquillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1888 - Melbourne, Victoria

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922


Birth, Marriage & Death


Name: Feux Reuben Hargrave
Mother: Mary Mcouillan
Father: Francis Hargrave
Birth: 1892 - Melbourne, Victoria

Australia Death Index, 1787-1985


Birth, Marriage & Death



Preview
Name: Francis Leslie Hargrave
Death Date: 30 Apr 1948
Death Place: Queensland
Father's Name: Francis
Mother's Name: Mary McQuillan
Registration Year: 1948
Registration Place: Queensland
Registration Number: 001794
Page Number: 930

See more

Name: Francis Leslie Hargrave
Mother: Mary McQuillan
Father: Francis
Death: 1948 - Queensland

OTHER POSSIBLE

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
about Ernest Robert Macquillan
Name: Ernest Robert Macquillan
Birth Date: 1876
Father's Name: Robert Macquillan
Mother's Name: Emma
Birth Place: New South Wales
Registration Year: 1876
Registration Place: Sydney, New South Wales
Registration Number: 2617
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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: Mary in Oz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:13 am

Eric. I would not be surprised if that wasn't the right marriage,,He could have been here in the services during the end of the war years and she has gone to the UK to marry him..A war bride..of sorts..price of a boat ticket in those days was 100 pounds one way..might be a good idea to order the marriage certificate.. out of sheer curiosity if nothing else.. :lol: and a way to eliminate her as the daughter..

Those 2 sections I suggest you look at are in Ancestry Australia..click show all, and scan down till you come to them.

Well done Dizzy... I am not used to searching in OZ and you have shown me what you can do when experienced.. :D

The plot thickens..or is getting more complicated ...but never say die... :D
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Re: Experienced people, what would you guess?

PostAuthor: erich » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:21 am

Mary in Oz wrote:Eric. I would not be surprised if that wasn't the right marriage,,He could have been here in the services during the end of the war years and she has gone to the UK to marry him..A war bride..of sorts..price of a boat ticket in those days was 100 pounds one way..might be a good idea to order the marriage certificate.. out of sheer curiosity if nothing else.. :lol: and a way to eliminate her as the daughter..

Yes, I guess that's possible, although she would only have been 18 in 1945 at the end of the war. Also interesting is that there are no records for any Asgill-Tucker in Ancestry apart from this marriage. But I have found a young Henry Asgill-Tucker in Sydney now - he could feasibly be the child of these two. Thanks again.


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